Curse

Ouchie · Jan 11, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keekles

Use exploit, be banned.

Here is where I can see both sides to the story. I personally have never used an exploit in the game but, I remember people going crazy over afk farming points in nightfall which everyone knew was an exploit - but those that did were never punished. There were other exploits used in the past with similar results.

So if you were one of the ones who did not hack the system - but had gone there as an invitee - why would you think it was wrong to use an exploit in this case?

If you knew the system was hacked it would be a different story. Then you knew it wasn't just an exploit and you should be punished.

Ebony Shadowheart · Jan 11, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Maybe 1 in a 1000 would, but that's besides the point. It's simply not fair.

I guess I'm only of those few. I have about 10,000 or so hours between my 2 accounts, but if need be I'd start over. Wouldn't be happy about it, but hey life isn't fair. "Life sucks, get a f*cking helmet." (Dennis Leary)

Quote:

Think of all the younger, less intelligent players who may have thought "Oh awesome, easy way to make good money!". They definitely do not deserve perm bans just because they were ignorant and stupid on one occasion- this is a game played by children after all. Give them a month ban and strip their account of all the money they made from the exploit, but definitely do not perma ban them. The fact that ANet would come out here and let everyone know what a good deed they've done by banning 180 odd people because of a lack of hacking protection shows what a pathetic gaming company they are.

So you're saying because people are younger they are stupid? Or that they can't use the brain in their head and think for themselves? Yes, I agree some of them were stupid and made a bad choice, in some cases this can be forgiven and hopefully those people get things worked out.

My opinion is simply that the more experienced, older players should have known better. Those that did that actual hacking seriously should have known better. You don't do something simply because you can and these people DID deserve the bans they got. Besides, if you have to hack a damn game to make gold, or use an exploit like this, its just pathetic.

I congratulate ANet for letting people know what they did. Its called good PR. Had it not been mentioned, brought to light, however you want to put it, down the road someone would have said "Why did they hide this from us?" We have enough doom sayers and conspiricy theories floating around as it is. We don't need more.

As for hacking protection; ya know, there's only so much you can do. If someone really wants to do something, they will find a way to do it. It doesn't matter if you have the best d*mn protection in the world. The phrase "sh*t happens" applies here.

I think you're intentionally missing my point.

Human beings are creatures of habit, giving people a slap on the wrist only does so much. Occassion more severe punishment and examples are required to keep the majority of the populace in line.

sterbenx2 · Jan 11, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53

This is not Anets fault at all. So they left something in the DAT file? Well, players aren't supposed to be playing around in the DAT file.

People have mentioned other exploits, ferrying and w/e, but this is TOTALLY different. Exploiting an in-game mechanic or something in-game that the Devs failed to see is one thing. Messing with the DAT file is totally another.

I still beleive that all this is the result of the economy adjustments Anet has done this year. Loot scaling, and everything related to farming and making money. Its now not as easy to rake in hard cash so people are attempting anything they can to can rich, even cheating. I am now currently going for the HM titles in Tyria and using the cash to work toward my Obsidian Armor and I have to say, after 5 or days I have 3 ecto, 1 shard, 35 Elonian Leather, and 350 Hides. I also have 5 or 6 req9 golds, nice ones too, and tons of max upgrades that nobody will buy.. tried selling stuff for 1k.. ONE! and to takers. In LA, Kam, KC.. noone. .pffft. The market SUX now. These cheat exploits prove it.

Noms · Jan 11, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

I agree with the post "stupidity is not a defence". I went there once with a friend, but on arrival, was like "whoa hey, something's not right here" and mapped out. I still have my account, so I'm thinking that almost anyone who was banned and claims to be innocent isn't telling the full story of what they did.

Some of the excuses are funny though, like "i only did it every so often". Keep 'em coming.

gogo65uk · Jan 11, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

What can I say besides LOL at all you that think its wrong banning people for hacking or capitalising on exploits. They knew it was wrong and they got fat and rich off it now they got banned screw them and screw the fools that think its wrong. Guildwars is going to the dogs anyway there has been nothing new or interesting for months. I think a measly 117 bans (or what ever) I say thats a small number compared to how many actually benefited from the whole thing. Ban everyone involved. Now you can bombard with the noob calling and saying I don't know what I'm talking about coz I assure you I do. I got all I have by playing honestly with very little farming no scamming or relying on exploits or hacks. And ANET don't give them their accounts back they ruin what little economy is left in guildwars now.

imbanned2 · Jan 11, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

This is not Anets fault at all. So they left something in the DAT file? Well, players aren't supposed to be playing around in the DAT file.

People have mentioned other exploits, ferrying and w/e, but this is TOTALLY different. Exploiting an in-game mechanic or something in-game that the Devs failed to see is one thing. Messing with the DAT file is totally another.

I still beleive that all this is the result of the economy adjustments Anet has done this year. Loot scaling, and everything related to farming and making money. Its now not as easy to rake in hard cash so people are attempting anything they can to can rich, even cheating. I am now currently going for the HM titles in Tyria and using the cash to work toward my Obsidian Armor and I have to say, after 5 or days I have 3 ecto, 1 shard, 35 Elonian Leather, and 350 Hides. I also have 5 or 6 req9 golds, nice ones too, and tons of max upgrades that nobody will buy.. tried selling stuff for 1k.. ONE! and to takers. In LA, Kam, KC.. noone. .pffft. The market SUX now. These cheat exploits prove it.

>>>no.. not the cheats/bugs/ect cuz this was something old according everyone and the last 3 months at least the market was and is the same since ursan is out going down in a hole.. because everything is ubber farmed..

so for all those who call this a hack or w/e.. what about ProgTest? he "hacked" to get in? nope I dont think so.. and he posted how it works.. + gaile gray CONTRADICT every time.. so ppl why there is no a real clean nice truth? BECAUSE THERE IS NO HACK/3RD PARTY PROGRAM/ETC ..WAS A BREACH THAT THEY(ANET) LEFT OPENED<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Tiyuri · Jan 11, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I just wanted to say that internet is very srs business. Also, nothing was hacked.

You know I can tell you from experience that Guild Wars has absolutely appauling security, the amount of malicious and profitable things available to the very mildly technical minded is just funny. What's more, none of these exploits, vunerabilities and so forth are found by anet until someone reports them, either through the forums like this, causing a big ruckus, or through support.

I can tell you that i've been partly responsible for reporting a fair amount of the more serious ones, one's that make you think... how did you not know about this already? How is it that I'm sitting here and using a very simple method I'm able to make entire districts of people crash? Start earthquakes? So on and so forth.

Infact, I bet very few people know, but early on it was possible to modify your armor with a similar method, there were people running around on 80 AL monks, with 10 runes, some of which were secondary profession, whilst appearing naked.

There's just no security here, and whilst it's obvious that exploiting the game should be intolerable, I think when you build a game with little to no security and expect a user base, some of which play the game once a week? once a month? To instantly recognise when that security is vunerable or a bug has appeared is ridiculous. Most people who play games, play games as they see them, they don't bare in mind the development process, or the testing process, and they as consumers shouldn't have to. Let's pretend I've just joined the game, joined a guild and someone logs into the guild hall and says "Hey! let me take you somewhere, we can make a lot of money!". You go, you DO make a lot of money, and thus logically you ask to repeat it. I can't imagine the number of cases like this that are going to pop up if we continue down this ridiculous path.

And perhaps the most worrying thing is, 99% of these exploits and problems are performed without hacking ANYTHING, not the client, not the game server. They are security issues, and this is one of those times.

Crom The Pale · Jan 11, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

As more and more info comes out we are learning a bit more about just what happened and why.

Like many I heard about this for the very first time right here in this thread, and like all the rest jumped to a few conclusions about what went on.

There have been many "glitches" in GW that most everyone has experianced. They are often associated with an update having an uninteded effect upon some aspect of the game. I have been involved with 2 such "glitches". The first was the BUG that allowed you to gain multiple 20% dmg bonuses to weapons through adding mods, the second was the Guild Hall mapping to locked locations. Niether of these were a result of someone changing the client for thier own benifit, but due to and update by Anet. The "glitches" were repaired and the effect upon the GW comunity was extremely small so no further action was taken.

Was it wrong of me to make a sword that delt 100% more dmg? Yes!
Was it wrong of me to use the GH to reach Vizuna Local Quarter with a non canthan char without joining a party that had the correct quest? Yes!

Are these things that will have an impact upon the entire gaming comunity? NO!
Should I be banned for making use of these "glitches" that were caused by Anet? NO!

Now we come to the "glitch" of the hidden outpost.

We now know that to get there you had A: be taken by someone that HACKED there own copy of gw.exe and B: had to already have completed the Mallyx quest at least once in the proper method.

This "glitch" was NOT cause by Anet in any way shape or form, it was completely created by the person(s) that altered thier copy of gw.exe to allow them to reach this outpost.

People that were taken to this outpost may not have understood that this was the result of a hack vs an update error. However, since they had to have completed the Mallyx quest at least once to gain entry, they should have noted that something was wrong.

At the very least they should have sent in a ticked to GW asking about this or posted in GWG's bug thread about it or asked the comunity in general about this unknown outpost.

These 117 either choose not to ask any questions about this "glitch" or they knew the truth and choose to make use of it. They broke the rules, they got caught and punished for it.

This is not the case of Anet making a mistake and then fixing it after the fact. This is clearly a case of someone creating a problem with the game, then involving others. Those that were involved should have asked questions, should have alerted Anet and should have figured out that they were doing something wrong and stopped.

Anet did the right thing and will be respected by the vast majority of players for it.

Aiden Arcana · Jan 11, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Heh, to bad this wasn't for the lottery, because i was picked as one of the lucky 117. In all seriousness, this ban is not fair what so ever. okay, we exploited big deal. So did at least 80% of you when you learned you could make a new character and send it straight to Lutgardis and it was a free Legendary Survivor toon. And Anet says they care about the economy. Hmm, so THATS why you can get most HoH chest only drops in Gwen dungeons eh? Or the bots are still walking around in an International District near you. Ohh wait, Anet gains from Boting. person buys an account bots it, gets about a mil of gold from it, goes to a Ebay site sells the money for who knows, maybe $80
Buys a new account because eventually its going to get banned. So Anet pockets ~$40 and the person pockets $40 as well. Seems win-win to me. Screws up the game economy, but its win-win for them so who cares. Now 117 people go in and do runs (I did 10 found out more then 30 people knew and stopped all-together, ironically to stop me from getting banned) and they make a quick $$ without really affecting the economy and they ban us. Hmm sounds a bit off but its Anet.

Oh and if it WAS hacked it wasn't every 117 of us who hacked it. I wouldn't have a damn clue as to where i could actually hack or even mess with the .DAT file.

Mickey · Jan 11, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I think alot of people that were innocent were banned without reason. Here is why.

As said in Gaile's post, they check people via how many times they had visited the outpost. Well, first you go to the outpost, you then beat mallyx, you get the quest again, go to the Guild Hall, go back to the outpost, to back to the Guild Hall, to get the ferrier, and then back to the outpost. That sums up 3 times per run. Now, people doing 5-8 runs will have it looks like they did 15-24. I wish they would just check the chest and see which accounts had opened it or not.

gogo65uk · Jan 11, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Anet seem more interested in trivial trade/local channel bans than bots (I given up on that months ago) Big deal if someone sells on local everyone will read it so what if its a different colour. Just shows how trivial people can be. as for ProgTes's comment about me not knowing what I am talking about you can keep thinking that all you want I'm not interested and so what if I typed Guildwars and not Guild Wars its a forum not a writing or grammar lesson. Either way I'm sure Anet will do what they feel is right even if many people don't agree. Guess anything we say fall on deaf ears.

LifeInfusion · Jan 11, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

I didn't know about this before reading the thread and I'm glad I didn't do DoA lately.

The problem is...how do you determine who hacked the dat file? How do you prevent people from being banned just for tagging along?

Venus Anu · Jan 11, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

More money in the economy means the drops you get are worth more than merchant value. That's not always a bad thing.

Well if everything were based on that then the money and goods obtained by these people wouldn't be frowned upon.... I don't agree with your statement.

ProgTes · Jan 11, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogo65uk

Anet seem more interested in trivial trade/local channel bans than bots (I given up on that months ago) Big deal if someone sells on local everyone will read it so what if its a different colour. Just shows how trivial people can be. as for ProgTes's comment about me not knowing what I am talking about you can keep thinking that all you want I'm not interested and so what if I typed Guildwars and not Guild Wars its a forum not a writing or grammar lesson. Either way I'm sure Anet will do what they feel is right even if many people don't agree. Guess anything we say fall on deaf ears.

I wasn't commenting on your grammar.

But really, what does all the botting and spam in local chat have to do with the bans for using this exploit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

The problem is...how do you determine who hacked the dat file? How do you prevent people from being banned just for tagging along?

As far as I know there are only a select few who actually hacked the .dat file. A-net should have plenty of ways to detect 3rd party software, so I'm sure the founders are out.

Then again, most of these people were in the same guild - a hacker guild called Armbrace of Truth [DUPE]. Ironic isn't it? From what I've heard the entire guild got banned - tough luck if you were in that guild and didn't do anything.

As for everyone who got banned, it's probably: guilty until the opposite has been proven. If you really didn't do anything, fight for your case.

Ebony Shadowheart · Jan 11, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

LOL don't you remember the court case on the east coast someplace about 2 years ago where a man who stole a stereo from a truck was set free? Turns out state law only considered taking something from someone else's car without permission as theft if the car doors were locked. Since one of the truck doors was unlocked it was perfectly legal for someone to open it and rip the stereo out of the dashboard - according to the judge.

I left my car unlocked last year (even forgot to roll up my window, oops) and some teenage boys felt they had the right to rip out my stereo. The three of them got like 6 months in jail, 2 years of probation, and they had to replace the radio. I guess it varies from state to state.

However a person's home is different from their car. If you walk into someone's unlocked home uninvited, thats trespassing. If you steal their stuff, thats burglary. If you break into someone's home, that's breaking and entering. Trespassing is prosecutable although its rare. However, the other two are illegal in every state as far as I'm aware. lol.

sorry, off topic, but I just had to comment. I couldn't resist =D

zwei2stein · Jan 11, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

I'm surprised they did not use an Alt account to do their dirty work and transfer funds to their primary.

(h) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members.

Basically, if you get banned, your alt get banned too if they know you have them.

Besides, i am fairly sure smarter people did it on alts which didn't get banned, otherwise there would be much more whining.

Balkoth · Jan 11, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

I don't think you guys understand. 90% of the 117 are gone, they don't use the forum anymore, or even have Alt accounts, most of them went to WoW. We could just close this topic now that fate has been decided.

/lock

I feel the same way. The reasons how and why people got banned can't matter much to the community at large. The only people affected by this new banlist are 117 out of how many active players(granted the 117 were probably more active than the majority of the GW population).

What intrests me is why this is such a big deal to everyone.

Gaile was very angry with people who got banned and made public remarks about them. Why? People get banned everyday, for things less consequental than this. Why does this incident recive the attention from the CR when there are so many more important issues on the table?!

Is this a scare tactic? A warning to all those who have been breaking the game?

I could see if this announcement was to cool the tensions of those offended by the exploit, but it could have been made less aggressive. Wheather or not any or all the 117 deserve to be banned is between the Banners and the Bannees. Repeatedly insulting or degrading the few banned is insulting the community at large. If people break the game(knowingly or unknowingly, it dosent matter), they should be dealt with by the proper authorities and not the game community.

I see a lot of strong opinions on this thread, none of them deserved.
To me this whole issue is just silly, and overblown!

Mickey · Jan 11, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Gaile told me, as one of the 117, that I had no chance. But I think I do, I know I only used it 7 times, I have people that know I have only used it 7 times, I have 7 Mallyx greens for christ sake. I just hope some of the people that might have a chance will keep fighting.

Lady Ana Stacia · Jan 11, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiden Arcana

Heh, to bad this wasn't for the lottery, because i was picked as one of the lucky 117. In all seriousness, this ban is not fair what so ever. okay, we exploited big deal. So did at least 80% of you when you learned you could make a new character and send it straight to Lutgardis and it was a free Legendary Survivor toon. And Anet says they care about the economy. Hmm, so THATS why you can get most HoH chest only drops in Gwen dungeons eh? Or the bots are still walking around in an International District near you. Ohh wait, Anet gains from Boting. person buys an account bots it, gets about a mil of gold from it, goes to a Ebay site sells the money for who knows, maybe $80
Buys a new account because eventually its going to get banned. So Anet pockets ~$40 and the person pockets $40 as well. Seems win-win to me. Screws up the game economy, but its win-win for them so who cares. Now 117 people go in and do runs (I did 10 found out more then 30 people knew and stopped all-together, ironically to stop me from getting banned) and they make a quick $$ without really affecting the economy and they ban us. Hmm sounds a bit off but its Anet.

Oh and if it WAS hacked it wasn't every 117 of us who hacked it. I wouldn't have a damn clue as to where i could actually hack or even mess with the .DAT file.

Get your facts straight, not everyone is out to cheat or exploit. I seriously doubt that 80% of the GW community is cheaters and exploiters.

Just started 3 new toons recently going for Legendary Survivor and guess what I knew I could get mapped to Lutgardis but my morals stand above anything in the game and nothing is worth breaking those.

Milennin · Jan 11, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

I got a question...
A while ago there was some guy in Kamadan who randomly invited people into his party and then map travelled to an area called Shiverpeak Arena... The map was basically Yak's Bend and a large part of Traveler's Vale combined, without any monsters or NPCs.
I guess it was basicly the same as that hidden area in the Realm of Torment, some kind of testing map. Now this map didn't allow us to exploit some part of the game (we were just partying and running around), but if Anet discovers this thing is still being used, would there be the risk of getting getting permanently banned?